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Author Topic: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post  (Read 1981 times)

Online imahangtia

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2020, 01:51:06 PM »
....By the way, if there was no government intervention in the healthcare system and taxing us to death, healthcare would be affordable for all.


Lawyers suck!  They are lower than pond scum.  They have destroyed this country over the past 50 years.

 

Online BishopofBling

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2020, 02:01:25 PM »
Anarchists are not leftists, anarchy by definition means lack of government, which no leftist wants. Anarchists are much closer to libertarians than the right.

You're thinking about the crust punks from the 80s that wore Anarchy "A's" on their denim jackets to be edgy.

Universal healthcare for the poor already exists, Medicare and Social Security. All socialist programs championed by the Republicans for years. By the way, if there was no government intervention in the healthcare system and taxing us to death, healthcare would be affordable for all.

Anarchists don't believe in hierarchy and believe in mutual cooperation and are leftists to the tee. All the old founders of anarchy were leftists like Proudhon and Kropotkin. Proudhon literally wrote a whole written piece called, "Property is theft!". Anarchists believe communism can be achieved without the state while Marxist-Leninists believe that you can use the state as a tool to suppress the bourgeoisie and achieve communism by using socialism as a stepping stone. Lenin thought that the state would simply wither away and become obsolete after socialism was built and capitalism was removed. You can read about it in his work titled, State and Revolution. Their end goals are the same which is a stateless, moneyless and classless society. So yes, Anarchists are leftists. The difference between anarchists and communists are the means of achieving that goal and their reasoning. I can go into more detail but I don't want to bore you.

The anarcho-capitalism that has surfaced recently is an oxymoron. Capitalism and state intervention run hand in hand because capitalists run the state. And hierarchy is inherit in capitalism because you have a boss and employee relationship.

As for medicare and SS, I think it's pretty inadequate and no I don't think no government intervention would mean cheaper healthcare as you are assuming that health insurance companies wouldn't run an oligarchy. Ironically enough, if you want proof that capitalists meddle in government to support their business practices look none other then at the healthcare and insurance industry which takes the spot of first and second industries that spend the most in lobbying.

https://www.investopedia.com/investing/which-industry-spends-most-lobbying-antm-so/#:~:text=Including%20health%2C%20property%2C%20and%20car%20insurance%20companies%2C%20along,their%20interests.%20In%202019%2C%20spending%20was%20%24155.3%20million.

I don't really side with either anarchists, communists, libertarians or anarcho-capitalists. They typically have a really skewed view of economics.
 

Online NiCKZ

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2020, 03:53:07 PM »

The anarcho-capitalism that has surfaced recently is an oxymoron. Capitalism and state intervention run hand in hand because capitalists run the state. And hierarchy is inherit in capitalism because you have a boss and employee relationship.

As for medicare and SS, I think it's pretty inadequate and no I don't think no government intervention would mean cheaper healthcare as you are assuming that health insurance companies wouldn't run an oligarchy. Ironically enough, if you want proof that capitalists meddle in government to support their business practices look none other then at the healthcare and insurance industry which takes the spot of first and second industries that spend the most in lobbying.

https://www.investopedia.com/investing/which-industry-spends-most-lobbying-antm-so/#:~:text=Including%20health%2C%20property%2C%20and%20car%20insurance%20companies%2C%20along,their%20interests.%20In%202019%2C%20spending%20was%20%24155.3%20million.

I don't really side with either anarchists, communists, libertarians or anarcho-capitalists. They typically have a really skewed view of economics.

Anarchy by definition means no government, there's no way of cutting it differently.

Capitalism is a system of voluntary transactions. For example, I want to buy your gun that you have for sale, you agree on a price, we trade the gun for the agree-upon price. The state is not voluntary, capitalism and the state do not run hand and hand. The state interjects itself in that transaction and says, you need to perform a background check and also withhold a sales tax and then remit the sales tax to the state by a date otherwise the Dept. of Revenue Services or ATF turns your life upside down because you didn't give them $100 from that gun sale or do a background check. This is where Statists lose every time, there is ABSOLUTELY no need for the state in that VOLUNTARY and mutually agreed upon transaction. Why do people agree to allow that to happen? I bought a gun from you, why is the state's hand in OUR pocket.

Capitalism isn't the practice of buying out politicians to gain the status of state-sanctioned monopoly; That's the definition of crony-capitalism. The issue arises when the state forces the little guys, that aren't friends with the politicians, to jump through hoops otherwise someone no-knock raids your home/business and shoots your dog. Without state enforcement, crony-capitalism is no different than a networking group or a vertically/horizontally integrated business, there will ALWAYS be another option to choose from. Crony-capitalism means nothing without state enforcement.

Anarcho Capitalism is the belief that there is no need for state coercion in a voluntary transaction, a system based on if you're okay with getting paid this much and I'm okay paying you this much, then we are square. The state doesn't need to be a part of it, the state doesn't need to be a part of anything. I bet the next line is going to be 'muh roads', 'without the state, what about the roads?' For that, a photo of New York City, circa 1905, before the Federal, state, SS, Med, etc. taxes we pay today. If there's a need, a capitalist will fill it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 04:27:01 PM by NiCKZ »
 

Online BishopofBling

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2020, 05:23:33 PM »
Anarchy by definition means no government, there's no way of cutting it differently.

Yes, and what I'm saying is that the end goal of both communists and anarchists is no government. I really recommend reading the ABC of Communism, it's available for free and it is probably the best work to give the basics on what Marxism-Leninism is about. For Anarchism, Conquest of Bread is pretty good and also free.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/bukharin/works/1920/abc/index.htm

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread.pdf

I'll just list some of my qualms with libertarianism/anarcho-capitalism and this will address your points.

1) Transactions aren't done in a vacuum and are not all voluntary

2) Free markets are impossible

3) Crony Capitalism is what happens when you have unfettered capitalism

The state should be able to interject in certain transactions because not all transactions are voluntary. For example, I get worried when people think prostitution should be legal because it's voluntary but, then you look at who become prostitutes in legal countries in Europe and the vast majority of them are women from poorer countries and even though it is 'legal' they have limited options and are exploited. Also the worker and boss role is not voluntary, people work because they need to eat it's why people are more scared of losing their jobs than bosses are of hiring workers. A worker is very replaceable the only exception being if you're highly specialized and skilled but those people are exceptions to the rule. The unemployment rate is a dagger over a worker's mind and I know of many people who would love to switch careers but cannot because the job market is so bleak.

Also, you're making it seem like that transaction taking place is the same thing as two neighbors trading peaches for cash. You're selling a gun; there needs to be some sort of background check system in place so I know I'm not selling it to some convicted felon and those things cost money so we give the state some money to run those services. Second, taxes are fine, people will whine and complain about taxes but some are needed to pay for certain things that a free market cannot provide such as roads or public transit. Certain costs are way too high for any company to start so the government is able to finance these things. Or if the company does start it, you run the risk of them being a monopoly and charging crazy high fees for tolls for public roads or rail. Taxes become a problem when the government uses them for corrupt purposes or they are extremely inefficient with them. And trust me, a local monopoly isn't any better; have you tried canceling cable?

The paragraph above relates to what I'm going to say now, free markets are impossible, there can never ever be a free market. There are only two industries that are close to a free market. Agriculture and stocks, that's about it and no it's not because of government intervention, it's actually because it's physically impossible. To have a free market you need thousands of sellers and millions of buyers and the transaction have to be easy. Also, the marginal cost to produce a good has to be the same as it's price. I'll use an example, odds are you only have one option for an electric company in your area, it's not because the government says you can only have one electric company, it's because you cannot cover the whole sky with electric wires from countless electric companies. It's impossible to have a bunch of electric companies competing in your area filling up the streets with their own company poles and wires. So you have one electric company locally and the government puts regulations on them to prevent them from overcharging you.

Crony capitalism is the natural progression of unfettered capitalism. This is why I have a problem with libertarians, because free markets are impossible then naturally you'll have some companies rise to the top, think Standard Oil. Those guys at the top will stomp out any competition which screws over consumers. That's not caused by the government. Now it CAN be caused by the governments if the government is incredibly corrupt and accepts bribes from monopolies but naturally, a government should encourage competition that's where anti-trust laws come into play. Just because you eliminate government doesn't mean all the problems of 'crony capitalism' will go away. They won't. Depending on the industry there may not be another option to choose from.

As for the whole, the state isn't voluntary, it most certainly is, it's why we have elected officials. We vote for representatives and they should in theory vote for legislation that we support on our behalf. Just because YOU don't want to pay taxes or fees doesn't mean you shouldn't. I see this all the time with groups like sovereign citizens, apparently traffic laws don't apply to them but they should still be allowed to use public roads lmao. Or how conservatives love to support Bundy who owed the federal government over a $1 million in fees for trespassing and overgrazing. How come this guy can exploit resources that we support with our tax dollars? Oh yeah I forgot, the law shouldn't apply to him because it's unfair well boo hoo. That's like me using public roads to operate my business but refusing to pay my fair share of taxes so instead I let other tax payers foot the bill. Or if I opened up a private range on public lands and charged people to shoot then let the government clean up all the trash and brass left behind by my patrons.

Maybe they had private roads in NYC, but guess what? They got rid of them because they made no money. The dividends paid to investors were low. Private investors later gave the road to the government once they recoup their investments because they were more concerned about increased traffic flow which boosted commerce in the area.

Now generally speaking, if an industry has lots of competition then a hands off approach is a great thing for the government as the market will regulate itself. But, most industries don't lend themselves to that so there needs to be varying degrees of government regulation depending on industry. For example, you don't really need to prevent restaurants from overcharging as there are so many restaurants and the barrier of entry into the market is low.

I can also go into why taxes and social services are necessary as well but I think I've written enough.
 

Offline Acesneights1

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2020, 07:15:26 PM »

Seriously?? CCDL?
Yup.
And SB nailed it. If you go to the admins personal FB page they are 100% BLM. Even thinks music theory is racist. Funny, was a musician for many years, played with many different people and always found it to be unifying not racist. This person is not just a member, they are an admin. If that person had a KKK instead of BLM would they still be on that page and as an admin no less ? I peeled my stickers off and they won’t get another dime from me and I joined up when they were small and unheard of. Was standing in line to testify at SB1160  behind Scott Wilson and he told me about it. Signed up on my phone. Too bad.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 07:24:17 PM by Acesneights1 »
guns ? I got rid of all mine before they jumped up from the safe and shot me.
People should not be afraid of their Gov't...Gov't should be afraid of their people..
God is not Dead.
 

Online Wrongthink

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2020, 11:33:02 PM »
I can't think of a single thing the CCDL has accomplished. Their admin being a BLM (the organization) supporter is just icing on the cake. The unfortunate truth is we have no real gun group with any power in this State, so I just direct any contributions I make to the GOA.
 

Online sbhaven

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2020, 08:41:40 AM »
I can't think of a single thing the CCDL has accomplished. Their admin being a BLM (the organization) supporter is just icing on the cake. The unfortunate truth is we have no real gun group with any power in this State, so I just direct any contributions I make to the GOA.
It should be noted they have had a win recently by getting a court to issue a restraining order against Red Ned's block on processing fingerprints for pistol permits.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.139202/gov.uscourts.ctd.139202.70.0.pdf

And they are keeping the challenge to CT's AWB alive.

CCDL Files Suit in the US District Court
https://www.ccdl.us/ccdl-files-suit-in-the-us-district-court/

I do not know that admin nor see much about their views other than a very limited Facebook profile that includes the BLM profile pic and with one entry that will raise some people's eyebrows; Music Theory's White Racial Frame. Everyone's entitled to their own views. However, if they support BLM's position on "common sense gun laws" while at the same time are the admin of a pro 2A state level gun group social media account. That raises some questions.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 08:45:36 AM by sbhaven »
Potentially, a government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
- Ayn Rand
 

Online WoodBurner

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2020, 04:04:48 PM »
So CCDL is the local version of the NRA?
I love CT. I've lived here my entire life, it's all the socialists and libtards that I hate.
 

Offline Acesneights1

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Re: Gun group condemns 'offensive and highly inappropriate’ Facebook post
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2020, 08:36:49 PM »
It should be noted they have had a win recently by getting a court to issue a restraining order against Red Ned's block on processing fingerprints for pistol permits.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.139202/gov.uscourts.ctd.139202.70.0.pdf

And they are keeping the challenge to CT's AWB alive.

CCDL Files Suit in the US District Court
https://www.ccdl.us/ccdl-files-suit-in-the-us-district-court/
100%


I do not know that admin nor see much about their views other than a very limited Facebook profile that includes the BLM profile pic and with one entry that will raise some people's eyebrows; Music Theory's White Racial Frame. Everyone's entitled to their own views. However, if they support BLM's position on "common sense gun laws" while at the same time are the admin of a pro 2A state level gun group social media account. That raises some questions.
guns ? I got rid of all mine before they jumped up from the safe and shot me.
People should not be afraid of their Gov't...Gov't should be afraid of their people..
God is not Dead.
 

 


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