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Author Topic: ATF Singles Out 23 SB Tactical Firearms Braces that Do Not Have Determination Le  (Read 556 times)

Offline Durham68

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Once you ban braces and rule out AR pistols, the Semi-Auto nature of the AR15 will be called into question - I bet they go after side chargers first - They don't have direct approval and slowly tear away at what you can and can't buy on-line.


I don’t doubt you are correct about their motives but I’m not seeing any connection between braces and semi-auto functionality. I don’t see how they can make that leap and get any traction.
 

Online Masked

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@masked - how would this work? Did some CT manufacturers (eg Delta Level Defense) get a determination letter based on submitting an example to the ATF?  Would that mean that version is GTG regardless?  Is this some of the %u201Ccontradictions%u201D people are talking about?

Those of you that know me - Know that I won't talk shit about any other manufacturer...We're in this together and that's that.

That being said, I've heard from several IOI's that the letter only pertains to that exact firearm. The moment parts started to deviate, they moved out of the realm of compliance. Whether that's the situation, or not...I don't know.

If you look back to when Joel/Evan and I discussed this in the ORIGINAL thread @ 10 months ago - I mentioned that they had effectively shut down technology and there would be no more approvals or denials, etc.

That's effectively what happened.

They created an artificial bottleneck that choked out the rest of us.

You can call it whatever you want, but again - To say that this wasn't a planned, orchestrated and strategic attack on semi-autos is pure and utter ignorance. You guys can keep looking 1 or 2 moves ahead - Don't mistake the game, this is chess and you guys have to start looking 10/15/20 moves ahead.

Once the pistol brace ban hits...Everyone with an Other, effectively has...Not an other. ATF's operating definition of the other weapon is a Pistol meant to be fired with 2 hands. I've seen it on our paperwork. It's their actual definition of an other weapon. If you take away what makes an other a pistol, what do you have? Effectively a rifle...Right?

Now you force a registration through congress...Scare everyone with an AR "pistol" into registering an SBR or an AOW or, go to jail...Now even if gun control isn't passed, let's say hypthetically Biden's gun control plan dies - You've still been forced to register...You've done, exactly what they were trying to pass in congress, through ATF threatening you via the Brace Ban.

Not only that, but once you take down braces and rule out AR pistols, you effectively shut down, 8 or 9 of the major manufacturers, that's over 70% of our industry forced to pivot because that's how they've been making money through COVID.

Then you hit everything else that's been sitting in technology. Are side charging uppers approved? No - Buh Bye. Binary triggers? No - We took down bump stocks...So Buh bye. You slowly chip away at the outside of our industry...

I realize I'm the eternal pessimist, but you guys need to start seeing the long game.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 12:26:05 PM by Masked »
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Offline Flatulence

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Ill offer my opinion:

Nothing will happen "across the board". There are far too many "others" in circulation at this point, genie is out of the bottle. Also think of it this way, no company as gigantic as POF would be sending me others if they believed they were in any way illegal. They probably spend more in one year on attorneys than a lot of stores make. As for the smaller manufacturers, who knows if they have determination letters. You would have to ask them directly.

Who knows what is going to happen in the future. The gun industry will adapt as it always does. What we should be focusing on is educating people and bringing as many as possible into the shooting and hunting world.
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The following users thanked this post: SJK2, CT203

Online M1A_All_Day

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Mr Flat nails it. It was not too long ago that here in CT following 2013 PA 13-3 we had pre-bans and....well, just pre-bans for the AR platform to sell. That was a solid 4-5 year timespan. There were/are some fixed mag options that mutated from the AR platform, but the Non-NFA CT "Other" ended up winning big. Before the stabilizing brace was big, just a foam cover on the buffer tube (or bare) was an option.

Adaptability and ingenuity is pervasive in this industry.

Also, HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!
 

Offline Durham68

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Those of you that know me - Know that I won't talk shit about any other manufacturer...We're in this together and that's that.

That being said, I've heard from several IOI's that the letter only pertains to that exact firearm. The moment parts started to deviate, they moved out of the realm of compliance. Whether that's the situation, or not...I don't know.

If you look back to when Joel/Evan and I discussed this in the ORIGINAL thread @ 10 months ago - I mentioned that they had effectively shut down technology and there would be no more approvals or denials, etc.

That's effectively what happened.

They created an artificial bottleneck that choked out the rest of us.

You can call it whatever you want, but again - To say that this wasn't a planned, orchestrated and strategic attack on semi-autos is pure and utter ignorance. You guys can keep looking 1 or 2 moves ahead - Don't mistake the game, this is chess and you guys have to start looking 10/15/20 moves ahead.

Once the pistol brace ban hits...Everyone with an Other, effectively has...Not an other. ATF's operating definition of the other weapon is a Pistol meant to be fired with 2 hands. I've seen it on our paperwork. It's their actual definition of an other weapon. If you take away what makes an other a pistol, what do you have? Effectively a rifle...Right?

Now you force a registration through congress...Scare everyone with an AR "pistol" into registering an SBR or an AOW or, go to jail...Now even if gun control isn't passed, let's say hypthetically Biden's gun control plan dies - You've still been forced to register...You've done, exactly what they were trying to pass in congress, through ATF threatening you via the Brace Ban.

Not only that, but once you take down braces and rule out AR pistols, you effectively shut down, 8 or 9 of the major manufacturers, that's over 70% of our industry forced to pivot because that's how they've been making money through COVID.

Then you hit everything else that's been sitting in technology. Are side charging uppers approved? No - Buh Bye. Binary triggers? No - We took down bump stocks...So Buh bye. You slowly chip away at the outside of our industry...

I realize I'm the eternal pessimist, but you guys need to start seeing the long game.

Again, I didn’t doubt there are plans to further restrict guns via ATF determinations, but why would a side-charging upper even be subject to review? It’s a semi-auto with a different position for the charging handle. I’m probably demonstrating my ignorance of the ATF by asking such a question, but what rule/law could that a side charger possibly run afoul of?
 

Offline Jgreen2193

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heres my opinion since everyone has one..
jackmey hoff buys from an FFL, a completed "other", it was approved and bullshit by the state and atf etc, has a non approved brace, sba3/4. its good to go, or it should be, or the manufacture has to correct it somehow.
hughas ule buys a stripped lower, builds an "other" himself, legally in every way following the rules. he puts a "non approved" brace on. that person is going to get their pee pee smacked if something happens that brings the law into their lives.
williefist agash builds their own "other" legally just like hughas ule, but uses a brace that has been approved by the ATF and has a letter from the manufacture, hed be covered and is the safest.

thats my 2 pennies.
 

Online Masked

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SB tactical has the letters.

They were given the go ahead by technology and approval based on the design itself.

Now ATF is saying because it wasn’t done brace by brace they’re not good to go.

I completely agree with SB tactical...Its flip flopping bullshit.
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Offline Jake

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Ok, I am the slow kid and confused. If someone built an other from a stripped lower and used an  sba3/4 are the ok?
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… "  Cesare Beccaria 1764
 

Offline Jgreen2193

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Ok, I am the slow kid and confused. If someone built an other from a stripped lower and used an  sba3/4 are the ok?

Right now it’s a grey area. There are no set in stone laws about this. Only speculation.
Mr guns and gear YouTube video really clears it up
 

Online SJK2

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Right now it’s a grey area. There are no set in stone laws about this. Only speculation.
Mr guns and gear YouTube video really clears it up

        Are SB Tactical Pistol Stabilizing Braces Illegal Now? Latest From The ATF....

Posting "Negative Karma" feedback under the guise of anonymity is just a “Girly-Man” thing to do. Man up & send a PM.!!!
 

 


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